Gittin 18 continues a discussion that began on daf 17b about the need for a date in a document and the ramifications of documents with dates that do not accurately reflect the date upon which an act was performed.
As part of the discussion, the gemara digresses and talks about the time of signing of a kesubah. The gemara bring Shmuel who says that a kesubah is like a finding of beis din -- just as the finding of beis din may be made during the day, but recorded at night, so too a kesubah may be written during the day and signed by the witnesses at night. The gemara then tells a story involving the kesubah of the wife or R'Hiya bar Rav that was written during the day and signed at night. Although Rav was present, he did not object to the signing at night because the sofer and witnesses were constantly involved. Rashi explains that the witness actually were ready, willing and able to sign during the day, but they were forced to wait until nightfall to sign because of the actions of the sofer.
The problem that I had with the gemara is that our current tradition will not accept the leniency of signing the kesubah at night. As anyone who has attended a winter wedding knows, they will rush to try to get the wedding ceremony in before nightfall so as to ensure that the kesubah is given the same day that it is written. However, based on the leniencies of Gittin 18, there should be no problem if the ceremony starts after the end of the day. R' Ephraim G of my daf yomi group said in the name of R' Moshe Feinstein (I believe quoting the Dibros Moshe) that the difference was that in the times of the gemara there already was a true eirusin prior to the nissuin, so the time of the signing was not all that significant. Since we have noth erusin and nissuin during the same ceremony, we do not want to have the ceremony on a later date than the kesubah.
On the bottom of 18a, the gemara begins an analysis of R' Shimon's position in the mishna that if the get is written during the day but signed at night it is still a proper get. In so doing, the gemara mentions that Reish Lakish believed that R' Shimon would only permit the get to be signed at night if it was signed the night that immediately followed the writing of the get. Meanwhile, R' Yochanan states that according to R' Shimon the signing could be even ten days later.
In explaining Reish Lakish's reasoning, the gemara states that there is concern that if more than a day elapsed the husband and wife might reconcile (temporarily). If the get was given later, there would be a danger that the get would be a get me'ushan, thus calling into question the legitimacy of the children. Tosafos (d'h "Chaisheenan") asks - why do we not have this concern with other gittin, such as a get that is brought from overseas and delivered to the wife six months after it was written? Tosafos answers that there is no concern because in such a scenario where the witnesses have signed and all that is left is the delivery of the get, there is little danger that the parties will reconcile. Whereas before the get is signed by the witness, there would still be a danger that a temporary reconciliation could create a get me'eushan.
In discussing R' Yochanan's thinking, the gemara explains that we are unconcerned about the danger of get me'ushan during the intervening period between writing and signature, because if the parties do reconcile (even temporarily) everyone will know that they have reconciled. Rashi explains this quite literally, stating that when the couple is fighting before he commissions the get, the neighbors hear the fighting. Rashi then writes that if the couple were to reconcile the neighbors would be aware because they would not hear any more fighting. This would then become widely known and there would be no danger of a get me'ushan.
If you have seen this post being carried on another site such as JBlog, please feel free to click here to find other articles on the kosherbeers blogsite. Hey its free and you can push my counter numbers up!
As part of the discussion, the gemara digresses and talks about the time of signing of a kesubah. The gemara bring Shmuel who says that a kesubah is like a finding of beis din -- just as the finding of beis din may be made during the day, but recorded at night, so too a kesubah may be written during the day and signed by the witnesses at night. The gemara then tells a story involving the kesubah of the wife or R'Hiya bar Rav that was written during the day and signed at night. Although Rav was present, he did not object to the signing at night because the sofer and witnesses were constantly involved. Rashi explains that the witness actually were ready, willing and able to sign during the day, but they were forced to wait until nightfall to sign because of the actions of the sofer.
The problem that I had with the gemara is that our current tradition will not accept the leniency of signing the kesubah at night. As anyone who has attended a winter wedding knows, they will rush to try to get the wedding ceremony in before nightfall so as to ensure that the kesubah is given the same day that it is written. However, based on the leniencies of Gittin 18, there should be no problem if the ceremony starts after the end of the day. R' Ephraim G of my daf yomi group said in the name of R' Moshe Feinstein (I believe quoting the Dibros Moshe) that the difference was that in the times of the gemara there already was a true eirusin prior to the nissuin, so the time of the signing was not all that significant. Since we have noth erusin and nissuin during the same ceremony, we do not want to have the ceremony on a later date than the kesubah.
On the bottom of 18a, the gemara begins an analysis of R' Shimon's position in the mishna that if the get is written during the day but signed at night it is still a proper get. In so doing, the gemara mentions that Reish Lakish believed that R' Shimon would only permit the get to be signed at night if it was signed the night that immediately followed the writing of the get. Meanwhile, R' Yochanan states that according to R' Shimon the signing could be even ten days later.
In explaining Reish Lakish's reasoning, the gemara states that there is concern that if more than a day elapsed the husband and wife might reconcile (temporarily). If the get was given later, there would be a danger that the get would be a get me'ushan, thus calling into question the legitimacy of the children. Tosafos (d'h "Chaisheenan") asks - why do we not have this concern with other gittin, such as a get that is brought from overseas and delivered to the wife six months after it was written? Tosafos answers that there is no concern because in such a scenario where the witnesses have signed and all that is left is the delivery of the get, there is little danger that the parties will reconcile. Whereas before the get is signed by the witness, there would still be a danger that a temporary reconciliation could create a get me'eushan.
In discussing R' Yochanan's thinking, the gemara explains that we are unconcerned about the danger of get me'ushan during the intervening period between writing and signature, because if the parties do reconcile (even temporarily) everyone will know that they have reconciled. Rashi explains this quite literally, stating that when the couple is fighting before he commissions the get, the neighbors hear the fighting. Rashi then writes that if the couple were to reconcile the neighbors would be aware because they would not hear any more fighting. This would then become widely known and there would be no danger of a get me'ushan.
If you have seen this post being carried on another site such as JBlog, please feel free to click here to find other articles on the kosherbeers blogsite. Hey its free and you can push my counter numbers up!
No comments:
Post a Comment